Oh Lord. So now even a conscious adult woman with full mental faculties can be raped when they never said no or tried to stop it? Consent forms before sex incoming…
I copypasted this in case you dont read my reply to another user
I agree that we don’t need to act like robots and not having to go through certain protocols before initiating contact…
BUT, we need to change what behaviours are acceptable. Reading comments on how some think touching someones butt is acceptable worries me. Touching someones butt can be very personal to many.
The problem here is that many (MANY) boys develop behaviours and actions that can be uncomfortable to women, but these boys (to be men) do not understand the problem because to them it is just the way they are..
We need to change what behaviours are acceptable. Boys and men need to understand that all forms of contact and all types of behaviour towards women is not right or acceptable.
For example, many men have no problem looking a women up and down, really giving them that intense (many times dirty) look. These men don’t go home and think that they did something wrong, they just did what they usually do when they see someone good looking and won’t reflect over their actions. That’s the problem with our society, that we just see it as normal behaviour. Noticing someone attractice isn’t a problem, the problem is what many think as acceptable actions.
We need to remember that flirting does not have to mean women are asking for IT (whatever IT is). When we think like that, than IT can become anything from grabbing someones ass to sticking it in. Are we still going to justify that she was asking for IT?
We need to remember that not everyone is strong willed, so forced sex isn’t always violent. A stubborn guy can force a women to have sex by talking her into it (usually happens with smooth talking and alot of close contact, kissing etc) Most of the time, she didn’t want to, but saying no is very hard for some.
Then there are those moments when women DO say no (sometimes repeatedly) without any effect, the man just goes on and this is because most women don’t feel strong enough to fight someone off. The man doing this sees the whole sex act as consensual, when in reality it is NOT consensual.
These are just a few examples on what many men have as normal behaviours and don’t think twice about, but what makes many women uncomfortable and scared.
It is important for men to understand what makes women uncomfortable so that we can learn what is appropriate and when something is unappropriate.
I agree that we don’t need to act like robots and not having to go through certain protocols before initiating contact…
BUT, we need to change what behaviours are acceptable. Reading comments on how some think touching someones butt is acceptable worries me. Touching someones butt can be very personal to many.
The problem here is that many (MANY) boys develop behaviours and actions that can be uncomfortable to women, but these boys (to be men) do not understand the problem because to them it is just the way they are..
We need to change what behaviours are acceptable. Boys and men need to understand that all forms of contact and all types of behaviour towards women is not right or acceptable.
For example, many men have no problem looking a women up and down, really giving them that intense (many times dirty) look. These men don’t go home and think that they did something wrong, they just did what they usually do when they see someone good looking and won’t reflect over their actions. That’s the problem with our society, that we just see it as normal behaviour. Noticing someone attractice isn’t a problem, the problem is what many think as acceptable actions.
We need to remember that flirting does not have to mean women are asking for IT (whatever IT is). When we think like that, than IT can become anything from grabbing someones ass to sticking it in. Are we still going to justify that she was asking for IT?
We need to remember that not everyone is strong willed, so forced sex isn’t always violent. A stubborn guy can force a women to have sex by talking her into it (usually happens with smooth talking and alot of close contact, kissing etc) Most of the time, she didn’t want to, but saying no is very hard for some.
These are just a few examples on what many men have as normal behaviours and don’t think twice about, but what makes many women uncomfortable and scared.
It is important for men to understand what makes women uncomfortable so that we can learn what is appropriate and when something is unappropriate.
Love the tone of this article! Of course, it’s awesome if people weren’t phased by your coming out. Major progress. But I’m going to give you a totally unbiased, straight-white-girl-pumpkin-spice’d reason why I *think* you didn’t get a response:
Your tweet doesn’t come across as coming out.
In fact, it could almost be perceived as poking fun of pride (“I’m gonna make out with EEEEEEVERYONE!”).
I love it. Don’t get me wrong. It’s just kinda beating around the bush…so to speak. If I knew you–which I don’t–I wouldn’t have read into your tweet. I probably would’ve scrolled right by.
Now, if you’d mentioned the rainbow carpet and genital shaped fireworks…that’s a whole other story!
I feel a bit enraged by this article. I feel it trivialises what may or may not have happened to me and that anyone who posts #metoo has to question whether they have that right. Do I have that right to post…… As a naive 15 year old, I got myself into situations which I certainly wouldn’t now. I just wanted to be friendly and have friends and feel I was taken advantage of. I went into someone’s apartment during a sunny afternoon, quite innocently that I had seen around, he put porn on the tv and I said I was leaving and he wouldn’t let me out until I kissed him. I guess it could have been a lot worse! I got a lift home from a party with some other girls and when I was the last to be dropped off again the same thing happened ” you can go if you give me a kiss”. A guy I liked walked me home and I kissed him but I had to really try hard to fend him off from getting his hands into my pants. Does this justify my posting #metoo
Ugh Veronica…I relate to every word of this article and cannot thank you enough for writing it. Seriously, this is the most honest and reflective piece of work on this subject.
1) Prove it was intentional. She was there and isn’t even sure.
2) He was 14. If you’re going to sit there and sanctimoniously pretend you never misread signs, especially at that age, then you’re a liar. I don’t want to live in a society where we have to ask permission to touch someone in a sexual way. There is no passion in that. If you do, that’s on you. It’s obvious from her account he was not being perverted and simply thought she would have been okay with it. Given the context “flirting for weeks, desire for that kind of attention” I think a lot of 14 year old boys would have made that mistake. Not #MeToo.
3) How many times have you said “no” or “stop” initially but later gave in? Was that rape? You can change consent. Which she did. But she was too drunk. That’s the point.
You absolutely can #me too. You have every right, and maybe need to talk to someone to help sort your thoughts. Coming from me, its kinda funny, as I have a boyfriend and have allowed some questionable behavior. I need to get on that. Now! Take care of You.❤
I don’t normally feel the need to correct others in a comments section, but you are terribly misguided about the law. I am a lawyer, and you should know that ANY and ALL forms of unwanted physical contact are considered, in the eyes of the law, as a battery. This doesn’t mean you need to have permission to touch someone every time, but they reserve the right to reject it. In our society, we provide recovery for those victims of battery. An assault requires intent to cause apprehension by a reasonable person’s standards, and generally the ruling post Title IX is that a reasonable person would NOT act similarly, putting the assailant in the wrong. Unwanted, unwarranted butt-grabbing DOES qualify as a battery/assault of the sexual nature. While there is no state law that requires permission to touch someone, the law does provide recovery for unwanted touching. The nice part about it is that it doesn’t matter what YOU think happened, or even what THEY thought, because the law is the law.
There is no law that states you need to ask permission to touch someone. Touching a sexual organ? Sure that’s different. But as someone else stated we are not robots.
Maybe if you’re a robot… In the human world, people have first kisses, hug each other, put their arms around each other, and playfully grab bums without prefacing it with “IS IT OKAY IF I TOUCH YOU?”. She says they had been flirting for weeks and that she had been wanting it; she was just caught off guard.
I’m in no way shape or form trying to deny her right to have felt uncomfortable, and I can completely empathise with her conflicted feelings and that it may have been traumatic for her. He clearly missed the mark and it’s sad to me that she blames herself for her awkwardness rather than his lack of finesse. But just because it was traumatic doesn’t mean that a more than likely inexperienced and therefore rather unsubtle 14-year-old boy is guilty of sexual assault.
I’m not at all convinced that the butt grab was assault. Unless there’s something the article is leaving out, it sounds like he was just trying to make a move and missed the mark. It happens. People don’t explicitly ask permission and sign a consent form before doing things like leaning in for a first kiss, putting their arm around someone, etc. If he’d grabbed her breast then maybe, but to me grabbing someone’s butt is less intimate than kissing. It sounds perfectly normal for two middle school kids who have been flirting for weeks to do this kind of thing since they lack the experience to have more finesse. I an not denying OP’s right to have been made uncomfortable and scream, and now be confused about the incident, but labelling a naive 13 or 14-year-old boy as having committed assault is a bit much.
1. She isn’t 100% sure he flashed her on purpose though.
2. FFS do people ask every time before they have a first kiss, put their arm around another person on a date, etc.? No. The guy clearly missed the mark but from what the article said he also clearly seemed to think she was consenting.
I appreciate this article so much. Your bravery is beyond awesome. I publically posted my story on Facebook yesterday and regardless of the supportive responses I received, I still felt and feel ashamed. Stay strong, lady, and thank you for this article. It puts my mind to rest and shows that this really needs to be a topic of discussion and something needs to be done. Here’s my story:
Against my better judgement, I am going to post a very personal story in light of the #metoo.
I was sexually assaulted to the point of rape by someone I considered to be an acquaintance and friend when I worked as a bartender many years ago. I have always felt shame about that experience and, honestly, writing about it now, I still do. I said “NO. NO! NO!” multiple times. It did not make a difference. I always felt like it’s something I had done that caused it, but it wasn’t. Years after that experience I ran into him when I went out for karaoke. He was with a young girl. I walked up to him and asked if he recognized me. He didn’t. I recognized him. I reminded him of what he had done to me and then I punched him in the face. The girl he was with and myself walked out of the bar together. Never feel shame. It was never a fault of your own. If someone does this to you, just remember that you are still an amazing person. The person that did that to you has no control over you, your emotions, or your life. You are still YOU.
1. Flashing is a crime. It is sexual harassment. She is valid in stating “me too.”
2. Wanting attention from men does not give permission for another person to touch your body in a sexual way. Being young and flirting with the opposite sex is not the same as giving consent to be touched inappropriately. Expecting bodily autonomy does not mean somebody is damaged and/or will never enjoy passion. She is valid in stating “me too.”
3. Drunk people can have consensual sex. Consensual sex is not when a drunk person is repeatedly saying “no.”
This is really close to home, thanks for sharing. I was also not into this hashtag but after reading your article I shared it on facebook with #metoo. I don’t want people to know what happened to me, I find it very personal, but I also want to raise awareness of the prevalence of gender abuse.
As a child I was very good friends with our housekeeper’s husband. I thought I was in love with him, even though he was a 60 year old man. He never raped me but I remember a few instances when things got physical, a kiss, a touch. The fact that he didn’t rape me and that there was hardly any physical aspect to it made me downplay the whole thing and think that it didn’t mean anything. Until I went to therapy with some serious issues and it came out that whether or not it was rape, this was abuse and a pure form of manipulation because I was an innocent child and a girl. Noone protected me and noone realised and I didn’t feel safe enough to tell anyone.
Abuse is abuse, whether it is rape or a touch or something unwanted. Or emotional. And noone should have to live this way.
Oh Lord. So now even a conscious adult woman with full mental faculties can be raped when they never said no or tried to stop it? Consent forms before sex incoming…
I copypasted this in case you dont read my reply to another user
I agree that we don’t need to act like robots and not having to go through certain protocols before initiating contact…
BUT, we need to change what behaviours are acceptable. Reading comments on how some think touching someones butt is acceptable worries me. Touching someones butt can be very personal to many.
The problem here is that many (MANY) boys develop behaviours and actions that can be uncomfortable to women, but these boys (to be men) do not understand the problem because to them it is just the way they are..
We need to change what behaviours are acceptable. Boys and men need to understand that all forms of contact and all types of behaviour towards women is not right or acceptable.
For example, many men have no problem looking a women up and down, really giving them that intense (many times dirty) look. These men don’t go home and think that they did something wrong, they just did what they usually do when they see someone good looking and won’t reflect over their actions. That’s the problem with our society, that we just see it as normal behaviour. Noticing someone attractice isn’t a problem, the problem is what many think as acceptable actions.
We need to remember that flirting does not have to mean women are asking for IT (whatever IT is). When we think like that, than IT can become anything from grabbing someones ass to sticking it in. Are we still going to justify that she was asking for IT?
We need to remember that not everyone is strong willed, so forced sex isn’t always violent. A stubborn guy can force a women to have sex by talking her into it (usually happens with smooth talking and alot of close contact, kissing etc) Most of the time, she didn’t want to, but saying no is very hard for some.
Then there are those moments when women DO say no (sometimes repeatedly) without any effect, the man just goes on and this is because most women don’t feel strong enough to fight someone off. The man doing this sees the whole sex act as consensual, when in reality it is NOT consensual.
These are just a few examples on what many men have as normal behaviours and don’t think twice about, but what makes many women uncomfortable and scared.
It is important for men to understand what makes women uncomfortable so that we can learn what is appropriate and when something is unappropriate.
Read what I have written to the finish.
I agree that we don’t need to act like robots and not having to go through certain protocols before initiating contact…
BUT, we need to change what behaviours are acceptable. Reading comments on how some think touching someones butt is acceptable worries me. Touching someones butt can be very personal to many.
The problem here is that many (MANY) boys develop behaviours and actions that can be uncomfortable to women, but these boys (to be men) do not understand the problem because to them it is just the way they are..
We need to change what behaviours are acceptable. Boys and men need to understand that all forms of contact and all types of behaviour towards women is not right or acceptable.
For example, many men have no problem looking a women up and down, really giving them that intense (many times dirty) look. These men don’t go home and think that they did something wrong, they just did what they usually do when they see someone good looking and won’t reflect over their actions. That’s the problem with our society, that we just see it as normal behaviour. Noticing someone attractice isn’t a problem, the problem is what many think as acceptable actions.
We need to remember that flirting does not have to mean women are asking for IT (whatever IT is). When we think like that, than IT can become anything from grabbing someones ass to sticking it in. Are we still going to justify that she was asking for IT?
We need to remember that not everyone is strong willed, so forced sex isn’t always violent. A stubborn guy can force a women to have sex by talking her into it (usually happens with smooth talking and alot of close contact, kissing etc) Most of the time, she didn’t want to, but saying no is very hard for some.
These are just a few examples on what many men have as normal behaviours and don’t think twice about, but what makes many women uncomfortable and scared.
It is important for men to understand what makes women uncomfortable so that we can learn what is appropriate and when something is unappropriate.
Love the tone of this article! Of course, it’s awesome if people weren’t phased by your coming out. Major progress. But I’m going to give you a totally unbiased, straight-white-girl-pumpkin-spice’d reason why I *think* you didn’t get a response:
Your tweet doesn’t come across as coming out.
In fact, it could almost be perceived as poking fun of pride (“I’m gonna make out with EEEEEEVERYONE!”).
I love it. Don’t get me wrong. It’s just kinda beating around the bush…so to speak. If I knew you–which I don’t–I wouldn’t have read into your tweet. I probably would’ve scrolled right by.
Now, if you’d mentioned the rainbow carpet and genital shaped fireworks…that’s a whole other story!
I feel a bit enraged by this article. I feel it trivialises what may or may not have happened to me and that anyone who posts #metoo has to question whether they have that right. Do I have that right to post…… As a naive 15 year old, I got myself into situations which I certainly wouldn’t now. I just wanted to be friendly and have friends and feel I was taken advantage of. I went into someone’s apartment during a sunny afternoon, quite innocently that I had seen around, he put porn on the tv and I said I was leaving and he wouldn’t let me out until I kissed him. I guess it could have been a lot worse! I got a lift home from a party with some other girls and when I was the last to be dropped off again the same thing happened ” you can go if you give me a kiss”. A guy I liked walked me home and I kissed him but I had to really try hard to fend him off from getting his hands into my pants. Does this justify my posting #metoo
Ugh Veronica…I relate to every word of this article and cannot thank you enough for writing it. Seriously, this is the most honest and reflective piece of work on this subject.
1) Prove it was intentional. She was there and isn’t even sure.
2) He was 14. If you’re going to sit there and sanctimoniously pretend you never misread signs, especially at that age, then you’re a liar. I don’t want to live in a society where we have to ask permission to touch someone in a sexual way. There is no passion in that. If you do, that’s on you. It’s obvious from her account he was not being perverted and simply thought she would have been okay with it. Given the context “flirting for weeks, desire for that kind of attention” I think a lot of 14 year old boys would have made that mistake. Not #MeToo.
3) How many times have you said “no” or “stop” initially but later gave in? Was that rape? You can change consent. Which she did. But she was too drunk. That’s the point.
No. There was no opinion shared on their part. Thanks.
You absolutely can #me too. You have every right, and maybe need to talk to someone to help sort your thoughts. Coming from me, its kinda funny, as I have a boyfriend and have allowed some questionable behavior. I need to get on that. Now! Take care of You.❤
Yeah, they weren’t “silencing opposing views”. They were sharing their opinion. You know, like you did. Maybe try taking your own advice.
I don’t normally feel the need to correct others in a comments section, but you are terribly misguided about the law. I am a lawyer, and you should know that ANY and ALL forms of unwanted physical contact are considered, in the eyes of the law, as a battery. This doesn’t mean you need to have permission to touch someone every time, but they reserve the right to reject it. In our society, we provide recovery for those victims of battery. An assault requires intent to cause apprehension by a reasonable person’s standards, and generally the ruling post Title IX is that a reasonable person would NOT act similarly, putting the assailant in the wrong. Unwanted, unwarranted butt-grabbing DOES qualify as a battery/assault of the sexual nature. While there is no state law that requires permission to touch someone, the law does provide recovery for unwanted touching. The nice part about it is that it doesn’t matter what YOU think happened, or even what THEY thought, because the law is the law.
There is no law that states you need to ask permission to touch someone. Touching a sexual organ? Sure that’s different. But as someone else stated we are not robots.
I don’t care what the author is asking. I am making a comment on my own prerogative. Try not to silence opposing views. Thanks.
I agree with you 100%.
Maybe if you’re a robot… In the human world, people have first kisses, hug each other, put their arms around each other, and playfully grab bums without prefacing it with “IS IT OKAY IF I TOUCH YOU?”. She says they had been flirting for weeks and that she had been wanting it; she was just caught off guard.
I’m in no way shape or form trying to deny her right to have felt uncomfortable, and I can completely empathise with her conflicted feelings and that it may have been traumatic for her. He clearly missed the mark and it’s sad to me that she blames herself for her awkwardness rather than his lack of finesse. But just because it was traumatic doesn’t mean that a more than likely inexperienced and therefore rather unsubtle 14-year-old boy is guilty of sexual assault.
I’m not at all convinced that the butt grab was assault. Unless there’s something the article is leaving out, it sounds like he was just trying to make a move and missed the mark. It happens. People don’t explicitly ask permission and sign a consent form before doing things like leaning in for a first kiss, putting their arm around someone, etc. If he’d grabbed her breast then maybe, but to me grabbing someone’s butt is less intimate than kissing. It sounds perfectly normal for two middle school kids who have been flirting for weeks to do this kind of thing since they lack the experience to have more finesse. I an not denying OP’s right to have been made uncomfortable and scream, and now be confused about the incident, but labelling a naive 13 or 14-year-old boy as having committed assault is a bit much.
1. She isn’t 100% sure he flashed her on purpose though.
2. FFS do people ask every time before they have a first kiss, put their arm around another person on a date, etc.? No. The guy clearly missed the mark but from what the article said he also clearly seemed to think she was consenting.
3. This one I agree is assault.
I appreciate this article so much. Your bravery is beyond awesome. I publically posted my story on Facebook yesterday and regardless of the supportive responses I received, I still felt and feel ashamed. Stay strong, lady, and thank you for this article. It puts my mind to rest and shows that this really needs to be a topic of discussion and something needs to be done. Here’s my story:
Against my better judgement, I am going to post a very personal story in light of the #metoo.
I was sexually assaulted to the point of rape by someone I considered to be an acquaintance and friend when I worked as a bartender many years ago. I have always felt shame about that experience and, honestly, writing about it now, I still do. I said “NO. NO! NO!” multiple times. It did not make a difference. I always felt like it’s something I had done that caused it, but it wasn’t. Years after that experience I ran into him when I went out for karaoke. He was with a young girl. I walked up to him and asked if he recognized me. He didn’t. I recognized him. I reminded him of what he had done to me and then I punched him in the face. The girl he was with and myself walked out of the bar together. Never feel shame. It was never a fault of your own. If someone does this to you, just remember that you are still an amazing person. The person that did that to you has no control over you, your emotions, or your life. You are still YOU.
1. Flashing is a crime. It is sexual harassment. She is valid in stating “me too.”
2. Wanting attention from men does not give permission for another person to touch your body in a sexual way. Being young and flirting with the opposite sex is not the same as giving consent to be touched inappropriately. Expecting bodily autonomy does not mean somebody is damaged and/or will never enjoy passion. She is valid in stating “me too.”
3. Drunk people can have consensual sex. Consensual sex is not when a drunk person is repeatedly saying “no.”
This is really close to home, thanks for sharing. I was also not into this hashtag but after reading your article I shared it on facebook with #metoo. I don’t want people to know what happened to me, I find it very personal, but I also want to raise awareness of the prevalence of gender abuse.
As a child I was very good friends with our housekeeper’s husband. I thought I was in love with him, even though he was a 60 year old man. He never raped me but I remember a few instances when things got physical, a kiss, a touch. The fact that he didn’t rape me and that there was hardly any physical aspect to it made me downplay the whole thing and think that it didn’t mean anything. Until I went to therapy with some serious issues and it came out that whether or not it was rape, this was abuse and a pure form of manipulation because I was an innocent child and a girl. Noone protected me and noone realised and I didn’t feel safe enough to tell anyone.
Abuse is abuse, whether it is rape or a touch or something unwanted. Or emotional. And noone should have to live this way.